THARISSAPPALLY CHEPPEDU.
Syriac Christian Historians have written a lot about their prestigious
plates of THARISSAPALLI. Their imaginative stories have created an aversion
among secular historians toward these elevated stories. The building of
Kurekkenikollam and starting of new Calendar calculations are nothing but a
wild imagination by propagandist church historians. It is surprising to note that
none of these historians or Malankara Nazranies asked for a modern study on
these plates with the help of new scientific techniques.
There are two sets of copperplates, first group contains three
plates and the second set contains four plates out of which one plates is
missing from first set(some say one each from both sets). One plate from the
first set and three plates from the second set are kept at Syriac Orthodox
Catholicate Kottayam and other plate from the first set and one from the last
set are kept by Pulathin aramana, Marthoma church, Thiruvalla.
DONOR : Ayyan
Adikal thiruvadikal(aynadi kudiruvadi),at the time of Thanu Ravi(Kothanu
eravikthan) Time not before A.D.885.
Generally historians misunderstand that Thanu Ravi and Ravi khulashekharan are
one person .It is a mistake based on recent historical research. There are four
SHASANAS dealing with Thanu ravi (Tharisappally shasanam -5th admin
year,Iringalakkuda shasanam 11th year,Thiruvattuvay shasanam 17th
year,Kadamba mahadevi’s thillai sthanam shasanam ) are available clearly noting
his name and one can easily calculate his time of rule . (Read Pracheena
Keralathinte Rashtriya charithram By K. Shivashankaran Nair Page133-137)
BENEFICIARY:
Kurekkeni kollam Tharissappally ( not today’s Kollam)constructed by
ESHODATHAPARAI. There is no clear
indication of Mar sabarisho but at
the last of the shasana state that
‘AYYANADKAL THIRUVDIYEKONDU MARUVAN CHAPARICH NEERVEEZHTHI ‘ which indicate
that the pally was constructed by ESHODATHAPARAI and person who got persuaded
the King to grant the tharishapally
shasanam was MARUVAN CHAPARICHA. This is from original PADANUPADA reproduction
of shasanam.
Please read the content
from ‘PADANUPADA’ reproduction.
“”””””””SWATHSREE,
KOTHANU IRAVIKTHANU PALA
NOORAYORATHANDUMUMARUKUTHALAI
CHIRANTHDIPPADUTHU
THALANINYANDULA CHELANINTRAYANDAINTHU
IVANDU VENADU VAZHKINTA
AYNADI KUDIRU VADYUMU
MATHIKARARUM,PIRAKIRUTHIYUMU,MANIKIRAMUMU,MANJUVANNAMUMU,
PUNNAITHALAIPATHIYUM,
MULUVYYTHU KURAKKENI KOLLATHU ESHODATHAPARAI CHEYVEETHA
MULUVYYTHU KURAKKENI KOLLATHU ESHODATHAPARAI CHEYVEETHA
THARISSAPALLIKKU AINADI
KURIDUVADI KUDUTHA VIDUPERAVATHU.””””””””””
Now how can any one arrive
that above words indicate Mar Sabhor Isho .I really want to prove this plates
belongs to Mar Sabor Isho but sincerely it lacks logical evidences.
LANGUAGE & PLATES:
The language of the Shasanam is Tamil along with Koofic, Pahlavi, Hebrew signatures.
There is some dispute about the plate which contain signature of the witness in
Koofic, Pahlavi, Hebrew. Some historians say the plates belong to first set but
others say it belong to the second set. Historian P.V.Mathew gives more details
about the signature in his book Keralathile Nazrani Kristhianikal Vol.1. He includes
details of missing plate which he got from ZEND AVESTA BY ANQUETTIL DU PERON
vol.1 Page 175-178.
The claims of Mr. P.V. Mathew is seems more logical to me
since the first set of plates contain three OLAS (plates) tied through a ring
with equal length and width(each them was
two palms in length and four fingers broad) and in diverse characters as
reported by Antonio De Gouvea in his JORNADA page (389,390).That
is the witness signatures in diverse characters belong to the first set of
plates. But the position of by P.V.
Mathew on the subject of witness with
respect to the list provided by Anquettil Duperon may be wrong because the
first chepped give incomplete names ie. Two names from the Du Peron’s list with
a little deviation – VELKULA SUNDARAM (velkula chandran in duperon list),
VIJAYA (vijaya narayan), rest are incomplete. That means this first two names
of complete list produced by Du Peron some what agree with minor mistakes. This
makes the first set of plate complete .Hence the missing plates may belong to
the second set of plates. This puts us in a difficult situation that the donor
of the second plate are not clearly defined as the first plates are missing (by
some authors). There is also another contradiction that the First set of plates
contains no mention of PULAKKUDIPATHI while the witness in Tamil has an entry
as PULAKKUDI THANEYAN. This asks more authentic study by scholars to understand
the true nature of the Plates. My analysis on the base of translations with me
in English and Malayalam by Aquettil Du peron ,P.V. Mathew, and one English
copy from a book of Maulana Azad Library ,AMU Algarh.( The author of the book
cannot be traceable because that portion of the copy was eaten by termite) .It
is also noticed that the translation is done considering the both sets are one!
Following are the translations with respect to the witnesses(Kufic,Pahlavi & Hebrew) .Interesting thing is that CPT WINKWORTH translated all signatures but only two
of the Pahlavi signatures.
Witness name in
Kufic
1) Ibrahims’s
son Mymoon
2) Mani’s
son Muhammed
3) Ali’s
son Sule’
4) Al
Mazhsiban son Uthman
5) Yaha
‘s son ahmed
6) Ibrahim
son Amar
7) Athe’s
son Ibrahim
8) Mansoor
‘s son Backer
9) Mahmmed’s
son Al-kazim
10) Isa’s
son Mansoor
11) Yacoub’s
son Ismael
Pahlavi
1) Sharbhakth’s son Aphras
2) Ormasd (8th name)
1) Sharbhakth’s son Aphras
2) Ormasd (8th name)
Hebrew
1) Hassan ali
2) Issak
3) Benmechael
4) Abraham
Majority of the historians consider this plate belong to the
second set of plates without any good evidence. We have more convincing
evidence with the names of Tamil witnesses to the first plates (but P.V.Mathew
says it is of second set of Plates).Following are the translation of Tamil names provided by Anquttil du Peron in his book Zend Avesta.
Tamil
1) Velkula
Chandran(Velkula Sundaran in the original plates)
2) Vijaya
narayan(Vijaya in original plates)
3) Ithirakshi
odiya Kannan nandanan
4) Madhineya
vinaya dinan
5) Kanna
nandanan
6) Nalathirinju
thiriyan
7) Kaman
kannan
8) Chennan
kannan
9) Kandan
cheran
10) Yakondayan
11) Kanavadi
athithyenen
12) (anayude
rupamulla mudra)
13) Murugan
chathan
14) Murugan
kamappan
15) Poolakkudi
thanayan
16) Punnathalakodi
udayan inkannan
17) Punnathalakoranaya
komaram kannan
18) Sambodhi
veerayan
Recent study by some of the scholars was
able to translate some more names with much difficulty. They are not quite sure
about the correctness of these names. Those who are interested to know more please
use this link
Is it enough to make such a big story about Nestorian /Madanayo Syriac connection? Syriac historians are making tall claims on the basis of these Pahlavi signatures. Please remember the other signatures include Muslim names and some Jews names. If you argue that they were witnesses then the same logic must be applied to the Pahlavi signatures. They have nothing to do except being witnesses. That means the plate was given to Tharissapally which constructed by some YASHODATAPARAI and got a grant from Ayyanadikal with the instigation of MARUAVAN CHAPARICHA. So far we are not able to prove any thing except tall claims. It is amusing to note some families of MALANKARA NAZRANIES of Kollam/Kayamkulam claim that they belong to family of Mar sabor Isho.
Is it enough to make such a big story about Nestorian /Madanayo Syriac connection? Syriac historians are making tall claims on the basis of these Pahlavi signatures. Please remember the other signatures include Muslim names and some Jews names. If you argue that they were witnesses then the same logic must be applied to the Pahlavi signatures. They have nothing to do except being witnesses. That means the plate was given to Tharissapally which constructed by some YASHODATAPARAI and got a grant from Ayyanadikal with the instigation of MARUAVAN CHAPARICHA. So far we are not able to prove any thing except tall claims. It is amusing to note some families of MALANKARA NAZRANIES of Kollam/Kayamkulam claim that they belong to family of Mar sabor Isho.
KURAKKENI KOLLAM
The place called Kurakkeni
kollam is considered as modern Quilon by many of the writers. But some writers
clearly states that the Kurakkeni Kollam may not be present day Quilon. Present
day Quilon was capital of Deshinga nadu and came in to prominence only after
Portuguese made it their centre after 1503.In those days ports were not exactly
what is meant today. Many of the earlier maps by colonialists clearly indicate
that these places were comparatively open spaces with comparatively less
population. Most of the population was concentrated around the capitals where
administrative heads lived. It is also noticed that these ports were often
shifted to places where more facilities available according to the buyer. This
can also be based on the natural calamities , war etc.
William Logan states that the word Kollam derived from
Kovilakam. Ibn-batuata wrote about three Kollams of Malabar. First one is at a
distance of 5days from Kozhikkod ie.Kollam- Kodungallur. The second Kollam is
the capital of Kolathiri nadu ie. Panthalayai Kollam. He stated that he was
there for three months taking rest after his illness. He also gave information
about an attack from pirates during the travel between this Kollam and Hanover.
The third Kollam is at a distance of 10days from Kozhikkod ie. the last Kollam
of Malabar –Kurakkani kollam where Panakav kovilakam was situated. This was the
capital of Venadu. This indicate that these Kollams are the places of kovilakams of
respective dynasty ie. The Kurakkeni kollam may be in and around the Pnakavu
Kovilakam not the Portuguese Kollam of today .
The earlier Kollam port most probably some where nears the
mouth of Ashtamudi kayal region. This is
not an assumption rather based on some calculations. Chinese ships mainly
traded with Kollam as reported by most of the travelers. Ibn-Batuta reported that the Chinese ships stops only at
kollam on their return to china even though many other leading ports were there
on the way. This is because of the peculiarity of the Chinese Junk design. The
Chinese junks’s hull design are flat compared to European designs. So they can
go into shallow waters and carry out their trade activities. The Kurakkeni
kollam being inside the mouth of Ashtamudi kayal these junks are safe from the
turbulence of deep see. It is also difficult for them to load the ship with
trade items while anchoring at the open see like Portuguese. That is why they
preferred Kurekkeni kollam. On the other hand Portuguese ships have
comparatively deep Hull design makes them difficult or even impossible to go
inside. That is why the port shifted to present day Kollam by Portuguese
initiative.
Now let us find out what is meant by “Kurakkenikollam”. It
is obvious that the Kollam of today is not Kurakkenikollam of 9th
century. The word meaning may give some clue in that direction. “KURANK” means
curved and “KENI” means small streams(Neer
thodukal), kinar (well),small pond etc. as noted by V.V.K.VALATH in
KERALATHILE STHALA CHARITHRANGAL. Is this indicating that the Kurakkeni kollam
is known by such name because of the curved ship channels inside the Ashtamudi Kayal?
It is well known that any place name is derived from the particularity/specialty
of that place. Some historians like K. Shivashankaran nair in his book Prachina
Keralathinte Rashtreeya Charithram give another explanation to this. He says
that the place which is projected towards the see (south of Ashtamudikkayal) where
the new port is situated is called Kurakkenikollam without any evidences. This
may be because of over influence of Syriac church historians whom are very
eager to promote that Mar Sabor Isho built the new Kollam and started Kollavarsham
. It is true that the months of the Kollavarsham has a similarity with months
of Greek year but hardly came from Mar Sabor isho who might have followed
Syriac calendar or Persian calendar. Over enthusiastic church historians built
stories like Sabarisho built the city of Kollam and started the new calendar
calculation –Kollavarsham. What a great idea to promote! If it was true then it
would be the first time in world history a group of refugees who fled their
country because of religious intolerance built a city and started another
calendar calculation in the country of their migration!
But it is interesting to note that the evidence against
these church historians is there in the Tharissapalli cheppedu itself. It
clearly state that the church is built by YASHODATHAPARAI and the cheppedu is
given to Tharissapalli on the influence of one MARVAN CHAPARICHA. This itself
shows that the Pally was built by some one else and the role of Marvan Chaparicha
in this cheppedu is only a facilitator. Hence the arguments of the so called Syriac
Church historians are nothing but wild imagination to elevate their position.
THARISSA PALLY
Church historians differ in the meaning and origin of the
word ‘THARISSA’. Most of the Katholic historians state that it is Theresapalli
the cheppedu is mentioning and so they were Katholics. These historians have
not taken any care to study the history of eastern Christianity before jump
into conclusions. Now it has convincingly proved that the word “THARISSA” represent”TRISSO
“ a Syriac word denote ‘ORTHODOX’ . If it is true then the Tharissa pally means
an eastern church. It is also interesting to note that there is a similar word
called THARSAKAN in UYGUR language denoting orthodox Christians. Plz note that
UYGUR language was used by Syriac Christians, Manicheans etc. in Central Asia.
Now let us find out the possible location of the Tharissa
pally. Most of the church historians state that the Pally which was handed over
to Prtughese could be the Tharissapally. This conclusion is based on the
assumption that the Kollam of today is Kurakkenikollam and Mar Sabor built the
Kurakkani kollam. But we found that was unlikely on the basis of evidence from
the Cheppedu itself. Another important thing to be noticed here is that the
leaders of Kollam Nazranies were from KAYAMKULAM , CHATHANNUR, THEVALAKKARA area
. One among them noted by Portuguese writers was MATHIAS OF KAYAMKULAM and he
was staying in new Kollam and leading the NAZRANI traders. He was very friendly
with Portuguese and even written to King Manual I(Albuquerque,Cartas,II,Page268f,History
of Christianity in India Vol.I by M. Mundadan Page278).He helped Portuguese in
acquiring the required pepper and other items in return they disburse money for
his expenses during his stay in cochin(for business purposes). This clearly suggests
that the Nazranies of Kurekkeni kollam shifted to New Kollam for business
purposes and even built church there for their use. This church was placed some
where near the new port where Portuguese built their fort. The church built by
Nazranies of Kurakkenikollam at the new port was in the name of ST.Thomas as evident
from Travancore State manual Vol.I page 679. “’The Portuguese commander pursued
the Mohammedans to Vilinjam and burned the palace which gave them refuge. The
later retaliated by burning St.Thomas Christian Church at Quilon in 1516””(Yes
there is some confusion here but will be cleared later) But the Nazranies built
another church above the new Kollam town and worshiped there. Though the church
is known as Kandisha pally it was originally named after ST. Thomas church as
confirmed by Anquettile Du peron. He
visited the church during AD 1758(Zend Avesta by Du Peron Vol.I Page
188) .It is logical to believe that the new church was built to replace the old
church which was burned by Muslims and used by Portuguese. But if this was the
church built by Mar Sabor or buried , Malankara Nazranies would not have handed
over it to Portuguese at any cost. So it is logical to believe that the said
church was built by Malankara Nazranies of Kurakkeni kollam in new Kollam in order
to use when they shifted to new Kollam for business purpose. Another
interesting thing to be noted that the church rebuilt by the Portuguese after
the destruction by Muslims named after ST. Mary (St. Thomas encyclopaedia of
India , a detailed story is available in History of Christianity In India by
Mundadan Page 280,281, Keralathile
Nazrani Kristhianikal Vol.1 By
P.V.Mathew,Jornada by Antonio De Gouvea Page378).
On the light of these evidences we can be sure that the
Tharissa Pally is certainly not the pally in new Kollam or near to it but
possibly some where in the region between Kayam kulam to Ashtamudi kayal. But
we do not know whether this Church exist today or not because of lack of clear
evidence. But one can logically deduct that if the church exist it must be some
where in the Kurakkeni kollam (old Kollam) area.
Now let us study the other evidences in tracing the Tharissa
pally. We know that the OLAS of Tharissa palli cheppedu are kept in the custody
of the Malankara Orthodox Syriac Church and Mar Thoma Church. But we know that
Arch. Bishop Menezez after the DE AMPERITANA SYNODO visited important churches
to force the decision of the synod. On his journey he visited THEVALAKKARA
CHURCH in the old Kollam area. He was faced much resistance from the members of
this church. After the repeated promise from the bishop they showed him their
Copper plates which received from the rulers of old Kollam. This was the first
time any European authority came across the prestigious Tarissa pally Cheppedu.
Plz read what Antonio De Gouvea in his JORNADA page (389,390)
………….and
before leaving the Christians brought to show him big olas of copper written in
diverse characters, which contain many privileges and incomes which king who
founded Coulao gave to the church which was built there by the two who came
from Babylonia, Mar Xapor and Mar Prodh as we have said above ,which olas are
retained by Christian of this church as an invaluable treasure …………
……
and each them was two palms in length and four fingers broad, written on both
sides, and all the three kept hanging by an iron ring……….. This is valuable
evidence, indeed!
This evidence forces me to suggest that this
is the Pally we are searching for? But the history student in me does not agree
until and unless I get more evidences to support the suggestion. Are there any
evidences available related with this? Yes I think there is.
Let us go back to Portuguese documents. “””””””””According
to Damio de Goes in Cronica dofellicissimo Rei D. Manuel vol .l p 169 there
were some 2000 families of these Christians in the whole kingdom of Quilon. According
to Empoli in the town itself there were 3000 of them residing around their
church and they were called Nazareni Christians. In the town there stood an
ancient church (strangely enough, called our lady of Mercy) which according to
the tradition of the community was built either by st.thomas the apostle
himself or by one of his servants or by sts sapor and Prot, who lay buried in
it.””””””””””””(Cited in History of Christianity in India by M.Mundadan).
We have discussed that the church at new
Kollam (the one who burnt by Muslims) was in the name of St.Thomas and the Nazranies easily left the church to
Portuguese and built another one at Melekollath( upper land of thangassery). If
this was the church built by their saints and buried any one’s body there, would
they leave it so easily to Portuguese? That force me to suggest that the said
church is not the Tharissapally . But we
know that the church at Thevalakkara has a saint called Mar ABO is buried and
often confused for Mar Sabor(or Aphrot). Is it possible that the Said Sabor (or
Aphrot) is the same ABO. I think there is a strong possibility. The Mar Sabor (or
Aphrot) is associated with one of the Malankara Nazrani’s Head Pally called
KADAMATTOM PALLY. The Guru of one of the Kadamattathu Kathanar(Magician
Kathanar) was this Mar ABO. We have historical record that the church members
had the first set of Tharissapalli cheppedu with them. This along with
evidences related with Kurakkenikollam and other various records by Portuguese
sources force me to arrive a conclusion that the THEVALAKKARA PALLY certainly has connection to Tharissapally or
it maybe possible that it itself is the THARISSAPALLY.
Kindly note that this analysis is true
provided that YASODATAPARAI and MARUVAN CHAPARICHA has something to do with Mar
Sabor and mar Aphrot. I think future study by scholars will prove this. It all depends
on the wish and will of MALANKARA NAZRANIES.
This is added to the article in response to readers request. “Tarissa or Tharissa” is most likely from Syriac word “Triso”.
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=nLRADwAAQBAJ&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=TRISSO+IN+SYRIAC&source=bl&ots=7HmskfG8TV&sig=UWk-3ZzDecjixmnP-ByYhlSLFt4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPzbf2oeLeAhXBvI8KHYmUAkoQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=TRISSO%20IN%20SYRIAC&f=false
http://www.oxuscom.com/Nestorian_Christianity_in_CA.pdf (page 5)
Thanks
Jeevan Philip.
20/11/2018.
Addendum
This is added to the article in response to readers request. “Tarissa or Tharissa” is most likely from Syriac word “Triso”.
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=nLRADwAAQBAJ&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=TRISSO+IN+SYRIAC&source=bl&ots=7HmskfG8TV&sig=UWk-3ZzDecjixmnP-ByYhlSLFt4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPzbf2oeLeAhXBvI8KHYmUAkoQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=TRISSO%20IN%20SYRIAC&f=false
It is also to be noted that “Tarsakan” was the Iranian word for
Orthodox/Nestorian Christians beyond the Oxus river ,which passed on to central
Asia through Uygur Language . Malankara nazranies have a group called
Dhariyaykkal (Orthodox Christians) or Tarissa chettikal- at Thiruvithamocde ,who
excelled in trading . It is evident from Thaliyola preserved in a Malankara
Nazrani family called Karuthedathu of Mavelikkara.
http://www.oxuscom.com/Nestorian_Christianity_in_CA.pdf (page 5)
Thanks
Jeevan Philip.
20/11/2018.
Who isTharisa(Tharusa)?
ReplyDeleteDr.kanam , You should be asking what is Tharissa or what is meant by Tharissa ! I have given detailed answer to it in the post . "Thrisso " is a Aramaic/Syriac word stands for Orthodox. Even languages like Uygur has similar words like Tharsakan representing eastern Christianity.
Deletehttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1417560445207726/?ref=bookmarks
ReplyDeleteDr.Kanam, History is little more serious subject and require evidence not imaginative stories. Plz study my article thoroughly and then analyse. There are serious research conducted/conducting on these plates and plz do not propagate such blunders if you do not have evidence.
DeleteHi, Good line of thought and strong citations. Keep it going.
ReplyDeleteBut why do you push-off Dr. Kanam's arguments?
"Now it has convincingly proved that the word “THARISSA” represent”TRISSO “ a Syriac word denote ‘ORTHODOX’ ." - And why do you so quickly embrace this version?
Dear Sujith ,
DeleteI am not embracing this version without any evidence rather logically deducting . Nestorians(for that matter other gnostic sects like Manichaean also used Uygur language ) beyond the Oxus river usually addressed as 'Tarsakan' an Iranian term for Christians passed into central Asia through Uygur language. Probably you may not put me in suspicion if I logically deduct that the 'Dariyaykkal' of Thiruvithamcode has something to do with those Tarsakans of Central Asia.
Having said that ,let me be more accommodative to any logical explanation if provided or found but unfortunately I am left with no other option till now.
Yes , I expect more logical arguments based on historical writings from Dr.Kanam, which he miserably failed.
Hi Jeevan
DeleteHere's the thing : the earlier scripts were weak.
What we now read as Tharisa could even be Tarshish, Tarsika, Darisa, Daricha etc.
if the Thiruvithamcode Christians were called Dariyakkal then Dr.Kanam's arguments have even more weightage. I will leave you to evaluate.
Keep going, its good what you are doing :)
Dear Sujith,
DeleteI am sorry , didn't notice your comments.
I am not negating any argument at all if it is provided with logical deductions or evidences.
Thiruvithamkodu history is to be looked at more seriously . One can not deduct and build words because it is sounds familiar. It requires supports from circumstantial evidences.
Why do i give more possibility to "Trisso " because the circumstantial evidence. The very same word is used in central Asia and our Malankara and the very same word has penetrated across continents and cultures.
More over , the cheppeds were witnessed by Bishop Meneziz in the hand of Thevalakkara Palli members< what else you need.
Now "Dhariyaykkal" is another supporting possibility when we read the Thaliyola of Karuthedathu family.
I do not know what is Dr. Kanam's argument and its base? He has responded years ago with his Vellala chetti arguments in this blog(by giving a link ) without any credible evidences or logical deductions .Let me go through his new arguments and shall reply in detail .
I'm from the Muthalaly family who owned the copperplates as it was given to our ancestor Marwan Sapir/ Marwan Sapirisho . There is absolutely NO CONNECTION with Mar Sabor or Mar Proth. They built another church somewhere. The Tharishapalli got it's name from Tharshish, the Palli in Tharsish. It was a Jewish synagogue and were Jews from Syria/Iraq . Our Palli was captured by the Portuguese who persecuted us and forcefully took it, which meant we had to flee and fled to remote areas of Kollam like Chathannur, Pooyapalli etc. There started new life a Christians to escape further persecution. Then they built 7 Christian churches called the Qadishangal . The Tharishapally was burned down by Velu Thampi because of his anger towards the Europeans. The Portuguese approached the king and got Jerome Nagar in the stead of Tharishapally. Later they wanted to build a palace and the local queen was also interested in it- the Thevally Palace was built in its place.
ReplyDeleteKollam had a great Jewish population than the Cochin Jews, infact some Cochin Jewish families emigrated from Kollam to escape persecution. Why are there no synagogues in this land that had many many Jews, why is it that the Wikipedia page for Cochin Jews quote a document that describes Jewish life in Kollam!!! We were perscuted and converted, our synagogues made into churches or destroyed. And that was the case with Tharisapally.
Please don't cconfuse my ancestor Marwan Sapir with Mar Sabor. The copperplates belong to us- not to a community or Christians.
Dear Nathaniel Muthalaly ,
DeletePlz contact me on this mobile No: 9400053330 , I just wanted to know more about your story .
Thanks and regards
Jeevan Philip.
Nathaniel Muthalaly,
ReplyDeleteThanks
Interesting information, though without historical evidences or logical explanations regarding the said plates. I am interested to listen you in detail,can you plz send me your contact no.or your email to: jeephilip@gmail.com
I am a history student and follow the evidence and logical based analysis not family stories ,myths or claims. However the interesting argument that your ancestor Marvan Chaparicha has nothing to do with Mar Sabor Isho is quite need to be investigated .
Thanks once again ,
looking forward to meet you or contact you ,
Jeevan Philip
Hi Jeevan
ReplyDeleteWhere in the plate translation does it mention Mar Sabor and Mar Aphroth as two individuals at all? In fact more than Mar Sabor, where is 'Aphroth' mentioned? Any other plates or references other than the old church names?
Dear Sujith ,
ReplyDeleteThere is no specific mention of Mar Sabor Or Mar Aphrot names in the Tharissapalli plates . Only "Maruvanchapareecha" and "Yashodathaparai" which is used for extrapolation and story making . No historical evidence from Malankara or Syriac Churches of west /Central Asia ever found regarding this two personalities . All stories are created and propagated for the benefit of respective churches.
I dont know why you are trying to connecttharissapally church,with nestorian,even while rejecting nestorian ties of malabar christians.th
ReplyDeleteDear Unknown ,
DeleteWhere did you get the information that I reject Nestorian connection of Malankara Nazranies ? In fact I do not rather witness the subjugation of Malankara Nazranies by Nestorians possibly from 1490 CE.
Jeevan Philip
Dear Nathaniel,
ReplyDeleteThe claim that you make has no proof. Jewish copper plates were with Jews only not with Christians. The Tarissa plates are kept by Christians through the centuries. Moreover there is clear mention in the plates about the old previleges granted to the recipient.
Dear Aji Mathew ,
DeleteI an trying to contact Mr.Nathaniel to get his perspective about the subject ,let us listen to him first.
Jeevan Philip